The Develop Croydon Conference featured a question time session with four leading Croydon politicians and hosted by the BBC’s Lucy Hockings.
The politicians were:
- Tony Newman (Labour), leader of Croydon Council;
- Steve O’Connell (Conservative), member of the London Assembly for Croydon and Sutton;
- Paul Scott (Labour) the planning committee chairman on Croydon Council,
- Jason Perry (Conservative), deputy leader of the opposition on Croydon Council
Here is a transcript of the debate
Lucy Hockings: I know there are different views on the panel about the challenges that Brexit presents for Croydon but also I think perhaps the opportunities.
Tony Newman: I am somebody that emphatically believes that Croydon, London and the country would be better remaining in Europe. I was away from here over lunch talking to people about the recruitment crisis in various restaurant chains at the moment in terms of overseas workers. The growth graph put up in a previous session shows it’s clearly had an impact. I’m sure Steve will tell us that it will be fine in the long-term but my concern is that right now at this absolutely crucial moment when Croydon is on the cusp of changing forever, I’ve got companies coming to see me saying we’re going to pull back on that investment decision and we won’t make that decision just yet in terms of the huge uncertainty that it’s caused. I hope somewhere along the line there’s a second referendum but my immediate concern is Croydon. We can have some interesting debates about Europe but I want to make absolutely sure that whatever is going on nationally, that with Sadiq Khan’s leadership in London and as the leader of the largest borough in London that we don’t let this debate derail Croydon at this absolutely fundamental time. That’s Plan A, B and C for me but my personal views are that the country would be better in Europe. But it’s not really what I think it’s about the owners making the investment decisions think.
Steve O’Connell: I completely agree with the final point because I think we must look at everything through the prism of the success and prosperity of Croydon. I was saying to others earlier, showing my age here, back in 1975 I was just old enough to vote and aligned myself with various nutters and voted ‘no’ to the referendum to the Common Market and I’ve not changed my opinion since. I think that for the broad prosperity of the country it will be a good thing. But we must consider the short-terms issues and we must get certainty. When we have certainty I think it will be good for Croydon.
Lucy Hockings: Tony made reference to looking at staff, one of the things that was raised over lunch to me was the impact of Brexit on private sector rental. In the wards around here there are a lot of eastern Europeans who may be leaving, and does that mean that not only are we going to see some empty properties but that some schemes might actually become unviable?
Jason Perry: I think I’m very much a glass half full person so I think there are plenty of challenges, there’s plenty of uncertainties but there’s also huge opportunities. Whilst there may be some issues around PRS, I with think the opportunities and the regeneration that we’ve hearing about, there’s the potential for those extra jobs coming forward, the Westfield/Hammerson scheme potentially 7,000 jobs that will bring people into the borough and also potentially jobs for those who are already here. So whilst I think there may be some uncertainty, I think there are jobs on the horizon that will bring people in and I think people need accommodation and I think therefore there will be that demand for accommodation in the private rental sector. So I’m very hopeful about the future.
Lucy Hockings: Tony, would you agree with that?
Tony Newman: I think we’ve got we’ve got happening here there is every reason to be optimistic but the challenge, and I know it’s been debated throughout the day, is to make sure we have a good mix of housing here. Because many of those jobs, they’re going to great jobs, but there’s going to be a mixture of salary scales there and we’ve got to make sure the people that are coming to work in the new retail, somebody’s got to clean it in the morning and run the public transport network. There’s got to be homes for people for those who want to work in Croydon and sustain us as a 21st century city on the edge of a global city. It’s that type of scale you’ve got to think of Croydon as, we’re rapidly heading to 400,000 people and so we’ve got to be homes for all the people that want to be here.
Lucy Hockings: A question from the app: What can help drive change in Croydon? We have heard about this need for a catalyst to change perception, we’ve got Boxpark, we’ve potentially got the new Westfield, what other catalyst would you like to see?
Paul Scott: I think it’s about keeping the momentum going to drive the change in perception in Croydon. I was here with a colleague last night and we went to Boxpark. She had never been to Croydon before and she was bowled over. She had a very central Londoncentric view of Croydon, which meant she was slightly nervous coming down here, but she left the place absolutely buzzing about it. I think it’s important that having got that momentum behind us that we keep it going by making sure.
Lucy Hockings: How do you do that?
Paul Scott: I think by making sure, thinking from a planning perspective, that we are continuing to grant the planning consents, support the planning consents for the change of development we need, That might be making sure that we have the right mix of office environments and workspaces that the businesses want in the future, to allow the tech businesses to grow and to prosper, but also encouraging the big organisations in. To make sure we’ve got the right balance of housing. We don’t want a housing market in the town centre which is purely one type of person with one large pocket. We need to make sure we are developing a fair and balanced community within our town centre, to make sure that drives the sense of a community place as well as a vibrant active workplace, live place, play-space place.
Question: Could you address this issue of affordable housing, this tangible sign of what the Mayor would like to achieve because a lot of people have expressed confusion about what the targets actually are, how they change and whether they genuinely are attainable.
Steve O’Connell: The Mayor is about to launch his new London Plan consultations and we have been looking keenly at the targets. I would agree completely that we need a mix of affordable. I pick up the Evening Standard property pages and some of the prices of the properties that they are marketing now, they are beyond unaffordable to the majority of Londoners. We need to address that in Croydon, therefore we need targets that are achievable. The previous Mayor (Boris Johnson) set targets, he didn’t always hit them, and this Mayor, Sadiq we’ve been having conversations with him to press him more on achievable targets. They tend to move, we’ve had targets of 40,000, we’re now saying we need 60,000 and targets elsewhere. So I think the issue here is to get the stuff built, get the planning moving through the system, get the developers in town and we’re blessed to have so many developers in town wanting to do business here. But, get the affordable mix right and affordable means a full mix of offers. As Tony said we want people to come to town, to work in town and they need to be able to afford to live in the town centre and elsewhere. It’s something we all need to work on.
Lucy Hockings: We’ve been talking about the plans for central Croydon but I am wondering how you are going to ensure that those plans benefit the rest of the borough.
Tony Newman: Well that is an absolutely challenge. Shifa Mustafa’s presentation this morning demonstrated how we have got a huge focus on the district centres as well. That’s very important. For many residents in Croydon that is home and it’s about making sure that we’re investing in those other areas across the borough is fundamental. In termss of the centre, from the council’s point of view huge decision to invest £30m in regenerating Fairfield Halls. That space when you take it across from somewhere like Boxpark and the other developments coming like Westfield and Hammerson, is about making sure that we’re putting culture at the heart of that regeneration and people at the heart of that regeneration as well so we see a city centre that’s thriving seven days a week. It may be a place of work in the week but I don’t want to see a deserted centre at weekends. It’s going to become very real next year with Fairfield Halls. That’s about a lot more of a restaurant quarter, cultural spaces as well.
Lucy Hockings: What do you see the economic value of Fairfield as being?
Tony Newman: Well I think, hopefully, a hugely successful cultural venue in its own right. When we talk to those that are looking to invest in the town, one of the reasons that people, who are looking at what to do with their companies or workforce, are now looking at Croydon where they wouldn’t have in the past is the offer for their workforce who may also be choosing to live in or around Croydon. We’ve heard several people talking about their first trips to Boxpark. That’s great to hear. I hope if we’re back here in a year’s time we’re hearing as many stories about people’s first trip to the new Fairfield Halls. Then it becomes about Croydon as a destination and Croydon as a place, even if you live here, perhaps you don’t get on the train and go somewhere else in the evening, you choose to spend your money in Croydon.
Question: Over the past few years there have been many proposals for improvements to the public realm, a lot of which seem to have been strong on the aesthetics, cost an absolute fortune, but either had no effect or a negative effect on public transport and private transport routes into Croydon. Is there a general will amongst yourselves to more closely examine these proposals to ensure that if we are going to be spending tens of millions of pounds of public money, that those are at least improved to some degree? Regardless of what the Mayor’s transport strategy envisages for 2041, we all acknowledge that over the next five or ten years there’s going to be an increase in traffic. If we’re making Croydon a really attractive place for people to come they have to be able to get here.
Paul Scott: I have to say I disagree actually. A lot of the improvements that are starting to take place are having a significant impact in improving the town centre. Part of the problem was that the planning that went on after the Second World War was all focused around the motor car. And, as we know, those motor cars are choking to death tens of thousands of people every year. So we’ve got to change the way that our town centre actually works. Yes we will have to accept that a fair number of people will continue to drive, and will need to drive, but we need to be promoting and developing our public transport, but also the ability for people to be able to walk – a significant number of people live within walking distance – but also cycling as well. So actually creating environments and routes for those people to be able to come into to town whether it is to work or commute from one of the stations or shop is really important. We need to be taking a holistic approach and dealing with the environmental disaster that we face if we do not start to make those important decisions. And I have to say I think that the improvements that have been made, although a lot of them have yet to be completed in terms of creating new routes, I can’t really see that they’ve actually worsened the situation at all.
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